November 25th, 2004
Ermete Realacci - Corriere Magazine (read 5,478 times)
He was secretary of Legambiente for many years. He was very close to becoming Minister of the Environment. Ermete Realacci is a sui generis environmentalist. He is a fan of underwater fishing and has a vision of the environmentalism that often leads him to clash with the Greens, with Italia Nostra and the wwf. He is not a fanatical defender of the territory against the intervention of the man. Today he is one of the advisers, together with Paolo gentiloni, of Francesco Rutelli, Margherita.
They say the left will win the next election. Why are you fighting so much?
«Berlusconi has the votes, the charisma, the televisions, the money. For better or worse in the center right there is a reference point. A «master». In the center left no one. It is not possible and not even desirable. However, one should not exaggerate. When the vertices of the center-left were made for me it was an anguish. Everyone thought only to differentiate».
As pecoraro Scanio, leader of the Greens, who in 2000 made 470 declarations all’ansa?
«You can also find me in the ansa statements, but almost never for matters of institutional politics. The other day a letter of mine appeared on Repubblica regarding suv cars. There were many letters of reply».
You said, Margherita party has more souls than DS (old PD).
«Committed Catholicism, people left of the ds. But also, of course, former Christian Democrats, Marini, De Mita, Castagnetti, Franceschini. Maccanico, Bianco, Dini. environmentalism, movements, Giachetti, Vernetti. La Margherita is the prototype of the mixing of cultural families».
You and Paolo Gentiloni, also from the environmental movement, are the two closest to the prince, Francesco Rutelli.
I think Rutelli is a great asset. But in the economy of my day I prefer to deal with topics that not the political joke of the moment».
Rutelli is considered almost a traitor by certain environmentalists. Especially by the Greens.
«The Greens are a useful force but they are marginal. They have not succeeded in representing the potential of environmentalism».
Environmentalists are said to be conservative.
«Some of them. If we went back with a time machine one minute before the birth of Porto Marghera in the Venice lagoon we would all agree that it is a nonsense. But Venice?»
Venezia?
«What if we went back a minute before Venice was born? Some environmentalists would fight to defend that extraordinary wetland, the biotope».
And what about you?
«I consider it a wonderful adventure of the man. Do we consider the towers of San Gimignano an intolerable modification of the skyline? For a long time, part of environmentalism has mythologized the example of Yellowstone, eight hundred thousand hectares without a centre, a village, a craftsman. In the Italian parks there are thousands of inhabited centers, churches, fortresses, castles, landscapes marked by the action of the man. The Cinque Terre is a national park where the landscape, unique in the world, was produced by man, his poverty and his toil».
What kind of environmentalists don’t you like?
«Carlo Ripa di Meana leads a fair battle against wind turbines. He is the typical exponent of an environmental culture that I hope will never win. The culture of frustration and powerlessness. To think that the landscape should never, ever be changed is to deny history. Ripa di Meana had many political pitfalls. He signed appeals for the refounding vote. Then he wrote on the Sheet that we must dialogue with the centre right. Now he has cheered for Bush».
Who else don’t you like?
Sometimes Desideria Pasolini Dall’Onda, president of Italia Nostra. I cannot stand the idea of environmentalism as a dead culture, which must be limited to defending a legacy of the past from impending degradation. Today there is a clash in Ravello that sets Legambiente against Italia Nostra. Desideria Pasolini Dall’Onda opposes the construction of a small auditorium designed by Niemeyer. They consider it a cement of the territory. An auditorium of four hundred seats, ten meters high, beautiful, which would be built in an area where they want to make a parking».
Not the culture of the Lord NO.
«An environmentalist who cannot distinguish between the abusive houses of Agrigento and an auditorium of niemayer is doomed to defeat».
You were going to be Environment Minister...
«It is said several times. But when it comes to decisions on ministries, different parameters come into play from those that might lead to me».
Who was the best Environment Minister?
«Ronchi certainly. bordon was in charge for little time and did not leave a mark».
Is environmentalism in good health?
«When Legambiente organized the first operation“Clean Beaches”, 15 years ago, participated a few thousand people, considered half mad. This year we clean the world” 700,000 people took part. Today, people involved in pedestrianizing a square, defending a green space, fighting an illegal landfill are considered a small opinion leader, a person to trust. But…»
though?
«Politics has a superficial attitude towards environmental issues of general consensus».
Are you against a Green Party?
«The experience of a Green party representing environmentalism in Italy has become sterile. It’s not by chance that many have left the Greens, Mattioli, Scalia, Manconi, Ronchi. The problem of environmentalists today is, for example, to understand whether the line that Montezemolo proposes to Confindustria, a line that bets on quality, innovation, made in Italy, instead of condons, on sanatorium, on falsehood in the budget, on Article 18, can serve to build up economic policies more attentive to environmental issues. I think it is».
When Chicco Testa was appointed president of’Enel, ...
the environmentalists were happy.
«It was a positive sign. He could do much more».
He let you down.
«It wasn’t him who decided. It was Franco tatò. Today in Italy there are only 800 megawatts of wind power. In Germany there are 13 thousand. Something did not work».
Is there a right-wing environmentalist?
«In the national directive of Legambiente there is the president of the park of Vesuvius who is one of An, or the mayor of Otranto who is of Forza Italia. The social right has sensitivity on environmental issues, just think of Alemanno’s positions on GMOs».
How are you born politically?
«I have an experience linked to basic Christian communities and student movements. Left, in short».
family?
«Son of teachers, middle-class bourgeoisie. Born and lived for eleven years in ciociaria, in San Giovanni assignment».
They reproach you for being a fish-killing environmentalist.
«I have always done a lot of sports, volleyball, basketball, tennis. And also underwater fishing».
And you’re not ashamed?
«It is one of the reproaches that do me honour because I do not have a stereotyped vision of environmentalism».
If you were a hunter, you’d be even less stereotyped.
«I fish only in apnea».
You know how happy the groupers are.
«Apart from the fact that I eat fish, fishing is an intense emotion. I don’t think we can reduce everything to pure rationality».
Why don’t you just take pictures of the fish?
«He would not provoke me to the same action».
You defended the Palio of Siena from animal rights attacks.
«I have received several dozen letters of protest. But I do not change my point of view».
Why don’t you defend the bullfight?
«In the bullfight, unlike the Palio, the killing of the animal is the center of the show. In the Palio the death of a horse is an accidental fact».
While you were killing groupers, you were voting in favour of the referendum on the repeal of hunting.
I have never been abolitionist. However, the exercise of hunting must not damage the environmental balance. When the hunters in Italy were many and the laws too weak, it was necessary to vote against the hunt».
What if a government bans underwater fishing?
«It seems to me a bizarre decision».
Are there other fishing environmentalists like you?
«We say that many environmentalists have eaten the fish I caught».
What a lovely environment.
«I don’t have a caste vision of environmentalism. For me Pasquale Pistorio, managing director of stmicroelectronics, is a much more radical environmentalist than many official environmentalists».
You are also a friend of Siniscalco, the new minister of the economy.
«Friendship with Domenico siniscalco was born several years ago when he was president of the Mattei Foundation that dealt a lot with issues related to energy, the environment, technological innovation in the industrial field, the ethics of the company, sustainable development. With him we created a group of people variously distributed among the world of economics, professions and civil engagement. There were Giorgio Gori, Alessandro Profumo, Chicco Testa, Alberto Meo Martini. We met behind closed doors and discussed in a free-wheeled manner. From sports to youth consumption, from the Middle East to quality nutrition».
It’s a little think tank.
«With Domenico siniscalco we meet again with Meo Martini».
Now siniscalco could give application to those reasonings. In your think tank supported also the building amnesty?
«I never imagined him grappling with a pardon. A true historical nemesis».
Try to examine Italian politicians from the point of view of 'environmentalism. Bertinotti?
It’s fine in the ban phase. It gives you complete confidence in nuclear power. But we don’t just need to say what we don’t want. We need to produce an imaginary of Italy able to mobilize energies, to convince».
D’Alema?
«He has often given signs of understanding these things, at least at the level of logical arguments».
Rutelli, what is it?
«Better still, also for personal and biographical data».
Prodi?
«More than many others he has a focus on concrete policies».
Berlusconi? His villa is not a great example of respect for the coasts.
«It is not only personal inconsistency. It has a primitive idea of economic competition».
Pecoraro Scanio denies the Margherita to have made some campaign purchases among the Greens.
«It was not a buying campaign, it was the exhaustion of an experience».
In the sense that Carla rocchi’s experience ran out a few weeks after she was elected?
«There must have been personal reasons too, she must have had enough, right?».
Maybe she should’ve gotten bored before the election.
It is also true. But we must always remember that she was elected to a single-member college. Among the votes that have elected Carla rocchi those of the Greens will have been two percent».
Now that a victory of the centre is on the horizon, the turncoats have changed direction.
The other night I saw the transmission of Bruno Vespa. Prodi was there. The salient datum of the transmission, rather than the things said, was a subliminal display that seemed to appear continuously in every image, fruit of the body language of Vespa. With the smile, with the gesticular Vespa he seemed to say: maybe the wind is changing, it is better that I adapt».
Who don’t you like on the left?
«The same definition of the left is old. Between Rosi bindi and Salvi I think Rosi bindi is much more left than Salvi.»
Why is pecoraro Scanio so obnoxious on the left?
«It is not considered very credible».
He did the things now he does Alemanno. Alemanno likes, pecoraro does not.
«It is imponderable. Credibility is a rare commodity».
Tower game. Mastella or Pomicino?
«I give away Pomicino. He’s the coolest turncoat. I like Mastella’s vitality. He doesn’t let anything get him down. It has just come out of a disastrous European election and acts as if nothing was wrong. A great».
Rome or Lazio?
«I am a Roma player. But I was happy when Lazio won the Scudetto. Better than Juventus or Milan».
https://interviste.sabellifioretti.it/?p=739
Ermete Realacci - Corriere Magazine (read 5,478 times)
He was secretary of Legambiente for many years. He was very close to becoming Minister of the Environment. Ermete Realacci is a sui generis environmentalist. He is a fan of underwater fishing and has a vision of the environmentalism that often leads him to clash with the Greens, with Italia Nostra and the wwf. He is not a fanatical defender of the territory against the intervention of the man. Today he is one of the advisers, together with Paolo gentiloni, of Francesco Rutelli, Margherita.
They say the left will win the next election. Why are you fighting so much?
«Berlusconi has the votes, the charisma, the televisions, the money. For better or worse in the center right there is a reference point. A «master». In the center left no one. It is not possible and not even desirable. However, one should not exaggerate. When the vertices of the center-left were made for me it was an anguish. Everyone thought only to differentiate».
As pecoraro Scanio, leader of the Greens, who in 2000 made 470 declarations all’ansa?
«You can also find me in the ansa statements, but almost never for matters of institutional politics. The other day a letter of mine appeared on Repubblica regarding suv cars. There were many letters of reply».
You said, Margherita party has more souls than DS (old PD).
«Committed Catholicism, people left of the ds. But also, of course, former Christian Democrats, Marini, De Mita, Castagnetti, Franceschini. Maccanico, Bianco, Dini. environmentalism, movements, Giachetti, Vernetti. La Margherita is the prototype of the mixing of cultural families».
You and Paolo Gentiloni, also from the environmental movement, are the two closest to the prince, Francesco Rutelli.
I think Rutelli is a great asset. But in the economy of my day I prefer to deal with topics that not the political joke of the moment».
Rutelli is considered almost a traitor by certain environmentalists. Especially by the Greens.
«The Greens are a useful force but they are marginal. They have not succeeded in representing the potential of environmentalism».
Environmentalists are said to be conservative.
«Some of them. If we went back with a time machine one minute before the birth of Porto Marghera in the Venice lagoon we would all agree that it is a nonsense. But Venice?»
Venezia?
«What if we went back a minute before Venice was born? Some environmentalists would fight to defend that extraordinary wetland, the biotope».
And what about you?
«I consider it a wonderful adventure of the man. Do we consider the towers of San Gimignano an intolerable modification of the skyline? For a long time, part of environmentalism has mythologized the example of Yellowstone, eight hundred thousand hectares without a centre, a village, a craftsman. In the Italian parks there are thousands of inhabited centers, churches, fortresses, castles, landscapes marked by the action of the man. The Cinque Terre is a national park where the landscape, unique in the world, was produced by man, his poverty and his toil».
What kind of environmentalists don’t you like?
«Carlo Ripa di Meana leads a fair battle against wind turbines. He is the typical exponent of an environmental culture that I hope will never win. The culture of frustration and powerlessness. To think that the landscape should never, ever be changed is to deny history. Ripa di Meana had many political pitfalls. He signed appeals for the refounding vote. Then he wrote on the Sheet that we must dialogue with the centre right. Now he has cheered for Bush».
Who else don’t you like?
Sometimes Desideria Pasolini Dall’Onda, president of Italia Nostra. I cannot stand the idea of environmentalism as a dead culture, which must be limited to defending a legacy of the past from impending degradation. Today there is a clash in Ravello that sets Legambiente against Italia Nostra. Desideria Pasolini Dall’Onda opposes the construction of a small auditorium designed by Niemeyer. They consider it a cement of the territory. An auditorium of four hundred seats, ten meters high, beautiful, which would be built in an area where they want to make a parking».
Not the culture of the Lord NO.
«An environmentalist who cannot distinguish between the abusive houses of Agrigento and an auditorium of niemayer is doomed to defeat».
You were going to be Environment Minister...
«It is said several times. But when it comes to decisions on ministries, different parameters come into play from those that might lead to me».
Who was the best Environment Minister?
«Ronchi certainly. bordon was in charge for little time and did not leave a mark».
Is environmentalism in good health?
«When Legambiente organized the first operation“Clean Beaches”, 15 years ago, participated a few thousand people, considered half mad. This year we clean the world” 700,000 people took part. Today, people involved in pedestrianizing a square, defending a green space, fighting an illegal landfill are considered a small opinion leader, a person to trust. But…»
though?
«Politics has a superficial attitude towards environmental issues of general consensus».
Are you against a Green Party?
«The experience of a Green party representing environmentalism in Italy has become sterile. It’s not by chance that many have left the Greens, Mattioli, Scalia, Manconi, Ronchi. The problem of environmentalists today is, for example, to understand whether the line that Montezemolo proposes to Confindustria, a line that bets on quality, innovation, made in Italy, instead of condons, on sanatorium, on falsehood in the budget, on Article 18, can serve to build up economic policies more attentive to environmental issues. I think it is».
When Chicco Testa was appointed president of’Enel, ...
the environmentalists were happy.
«It was a positive sign. He could do much more».
He let you down.
«It wasn’t him who decided. It was Franco tatò. Today in Italy there are only 800 megawatts of wind power. In Germany there are 13 thousand. Something did not work».
Is there a right-wing environmentalist?
«In the national directive of Legambiente there is the president of the park of Vesuvius who is one of An, or the mayor of Otranto who is of Forza Italia. The social right has sensitivity on environmental issues, just think of Alemanno’s positions on GMOs».
How are you born politically?
«I have an experience linked to basic Christian communities and student movements. Left, in short».
family?
«Son of teachers, middle-class bourgeoisie. Born and lived for eleven years in ciociaria, in San Giovanni assignment».
They reproach you for being a fish-killing environmentalist.
«I have always done a lot of sports, volleyball, basketball, tennis. And also underwater fishing».
And you’re not ashamed?
«It is one of the reproaches that do me honour because I do not have a stereotyped vision of environmentalism».
If you were a hunter, you’d be even less stereotyped.
«I fish only in apnea».
You know how happy the groupers are.
«Apart from the fact that I eat fish, fishing is an intense emotion. I don’t think we can reduce everything to pure rationality».
Why don’t you just take pictures of the fish?
«He would not provoke me to the same action».
You defended the Palio of Siena from animal rights attacks.
«I have received several dozen letters of protest. But I do not change my point of view».
Why don’t you defend the bullfight?
«In the bullfight, unlike the Palio, the killing of the animal is the center of the show. In the Palio the death of a horse is an accidental fact».
While you were killing groupers, you were voting in favour of the referendum on the repeal of hunting.
I have never been abolitionist. However, the exercise of hunting must not damage the environmental balance. When the hunters in Italy were many and the laws too weak, it was necessary to vote against the hunt».
What if a government bans underwater fishing?
«It seems to me a bizarre decision».
Are there other fishing environmentalists like you?
«We say that many environmentalists have eaten the fish I caught».
What a lovely environment.
«I don’t have a caste vision of environmentalism. For me Pasquale Pistorio, managing director of stmicroelectronics, is a much more radical environmentalist than many official environmentalists».
You are also a friend of Siniscalco, the new minister of the economy.
«Friendship with Domenico siniscalco was born several years ago when he was president of the Mattei Foundation that dealt a lot with issues related to energy, the environment, technological innovation in the industrial field, the ethics of the company, sustainable development. With him we created a group of people variously distributed among the world of economics, professions and civil engagement. There were Giorgio Gori, Alessandro Profumo, Chicco Testa, Alberto Meo Martini. We met behind closed doors and discussed in a free-wheeled manner. From sports to youth consumption, from the Middle East to quality nutrition».
It’s a little think tank.
«With Domenico siniscalco we meet again with Meo Martini».
Now siniscalco could give application to those reasonings. In your think tank supported also the building amnesty?
«I never imagined him grappling with a pardon. A true historical nemesis».
Try to examine Italian politicians from the point of view of 'environmentalism. Bertinotti?
It’s fine in the ban phase. It gives you complete confidence in nuclear power. But we don’t just need to say what we don’t want. We need to produce an imaginary of Italy able to mobilize energies, to convince».
D’Alema?
«He has often given signs of understanding these things, at least at the level of logical arguments».
Rutelli, what is it?
«Better still, also for personal and biographical data».
Prodi?
«More than many others he has a focus on concrete policies».
Berlusconi? His villa is not a great example of respect for the coasts.
«It is not only personal inconsistency. It has a primitive idea of economic competition».
Pecoraro Scanio denies the Margherita to have made some campaign purchases among the Greens.
«It was not a buying campaign, it was the exhaustion of an experience».
In the sense that Carla rocchi’s experience ran out a few weeks after she was elected?
«There must have been personal reasons too, she must have had enough, right?».
Maybe she should’ve gotten bored before the election.
It is also true. But we must always remember that she was elected to a single-member college. Among the votes that have elected Carla rocchi those of the Greens will have been two percent».
Now that a victory of the centre is on the horizon, the turncoats have changed direction.
The other night I saw the transmission of Bruno Vespa. Prodi was there. The salient datum of the transmission, rather than the things said, was a subliminal display that seemed to appear continuously in every image, fruit of the body language of Vespa. With the smile, with the gesticular Vespa he seemed to say: maybe the wind is changing, it is better that I adapt».
Who don’t you like on the left?
«The same definition of the left is old. Between Rosi bindi and Salvi I think Rosi bindi is much more left than Salvi.»
Why is pecoraro Scanio so obnoxious on the left?
«It is not considered very credible».
He did the things now he does Alemanno. Alemanno likes, pecoraro does not.
«It is imponderable. Credibility is a rare commodity».
Tower game. Mastella or Pomicino?
«I give away Pomicino. He’s the coolest turncoat. I like Mastella’s vitality. He doesn’t let anything get him down. It has just come out of a disastrous European election and acts as if nothing was wrong. A great».
Rome or Lazio?
«I am a Roma player. But I was happy when Lazio won the Scudetto. Better than Juventus or Milan».
https://interviste.sabellifioretti.it/?p=739
